:iidrr Talks with Cathleen Luo
December 2024
Cathleen Luo
Cathleen "Cat" Luo (they/them) graduated from Columbia University with a Bachelor’s in Visual Arts and Creative Writing in 2023 and is currently working as a Museum Educator at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They have exhibited in group shows including The Metropolitan Museum of Art's staff show, Bethany Arts Community, and FABnyc’s Young Artists of Color Fellowship show in 2024. Luo was awarded the Asian American Arts Alliance's What Can We Do grant to carry out community art programming in Manhattan's Chinatown during Asian American Heritage Month as a way to share their practice and serve the public. They have also received SICK Magazine's Microgrant for Disabled Sculptors in 2023, The Color Network's Studio Grant, and CERF+'s Get Ready Grant. They have been interviewed for Ratrock Magazine and featured in publications including The Columbia Review and SICK Magazine.
Can you tell us about your background and what led you to pursue art as a career?
CL: I went to a Chinese-owned studio growing up which had, what I’m looking back as, a fascinating structure. I started with oil pastel work in elementary school and studied still life sketching through middle school. In high school, I started charcoal and pen drawings where I finally had more creative freedom over my work and I only wanted to draw portraits, mostly of myself and my friends. Objects and landscapes were not very interesting to me, which still stands true today.
As most people did over the pandemic, I had an existential crisis and realized I had no more energy to do things I didn’t deeply resonate with. I didn't know what being an artist meant, but I knew if I could continue painting strange femme bodies, I would be okay. It felt very right in a time where it felt like our bodies were under attack, by a microorganism, by politics, trapped in our homes if we were lucky enough to have somewhere to call that. Spending time alone in my room made me question what it meant to be human, all our strangeness and fluidity that is forced into normalcy, into a 9-5 schedule, into concepts of gender and race.
I chose to pursue art because honestly, I cannot focus on making spreadsheets and coordinating meeting times all day without feeling like my humanity is rotting away. In a vague sense of the saying, I think living is to make meaning, to understand yourself deeply, which then, allows us to better coexist and connect with the people and world around us. As someone who is essentially always in a state of over-stim, from my poor eyesight and other things, art allows me to process and find peace at my own pace.
Altar Piece 1 (installation), 2024, glazed ceramic, incense, candles, oranges, apples, red suede, cushions, porcelain bowls, cigarettes, US dollar bills, flowers, 5 feet x 2.5 feet x 2 feet
What drew you to ceramics, and how does it help you express the themes central to your work?
CL: Looking back, my work as a painter made more sense in three dimensions from the start. I always cared so much about making bodies smooth and reflective, making sure the lighting and shadows were crisp and rounded.
I know I am stubborn against change, but my transition from painting to ceramics was very serendipitous. I was working at the Whitney Museum of American Art in their Access and Community team within the Education department. I was reckoning with identifying as disabled for the first time, and making tactile objects to use during tours for Blind and Partially Sighted visitors. I was working toward my goal of making the art world and its offerings more accessible to those who have been historically marginalized, and making those tactile objects allowed me reconnect with clay, albeit cheap air dry clay, for the first time in years. I was making miniatures of Woody De Othello’s The will to make things happen. It just so happens that I followed in the footsteps of the material he used as well as his subject matter: body and home. Maybe we were all thinking about those topics at the time, being alienated from ourselves and society while the world became less and less familiar. I just never quite stopped thinking about it.
Install shot from Dinner Party as Revolution, 2024, glazed ceramic, oranges, silk tablecloth, cushions, porcelain bowls, red thread, US dollar bills, flowers, 12 feet x 2 feet x 5 feet
As a Brooklyn-based artist, where’s your favorite spot to absorb art or find inspiration in the city?
CL: I find so much inspiration on my runs in Central Park and up the Hudson River Greenway. I don’t spend as much time in Chelsea galleries or museums as much as I should, because as a museum educator, I’m surrounded by art all day. I want to spend the rest of my life being grounded in the real world. Running is one of the most important activities in my life because it is the only time I am aware of my physical. There is meditation in the repeated movements, and I am so in my body, trying to catch my breath. There is so much energy running through me. It sometimes feels like every step is trying to run my body into oblivion. It is on my runs that I often come up with ideas for my projects. I think about Haruki Murakami’s What I Talk About When I Talk About Running when I’m on my runs.
Your work embraces distortion and abstraction. How do you balance intuition and planning in your creative process?
CL: I don’t think I try to abstract bodies, I am uninterested in honing realistic portraits, and for someone who doesn’t see details of skin, pores, or specific anatomically correct musculature clearly, I never felt the need to work those out. If I have the basics of a human form that I can recognize — arms, a face, a spine — then that’s all I need. El Greco, Japanese prints, Buddhist and Hindu sculptures all abstract bodies. A replica of reality is not important; a gesture towards a person’s full humanity, their interior and exterior states, is enough.
Death, Brother of Sleep / the violence of broken english, part of Dinner Party as Revolution installation, 2024, glazed ceramic, 30 inch x 14 inch x 18 inch
Ecstasy Devil, part of Dinner Party as Revolution installation, 2024, glazed ceramic, 32 inch x 25 inch x 15 inch
Your work reclaims the term “queer” and interrogates the concept of “alien.” How do these themes connect to your personal experiences and the larger narratives you explore?
CL: I think a lot about the concept of counter-will which is the automatic reaction of someone with ADHD to resist being told what to do, even when the task is something they would normally agree to, which comes up in discussions of disorders like ADHD and autism. For me, it comes from a place of defensiveness because the creation of identity is so fragile; we don’t want anything to influence it, especially things that don’t feel right, to disturb the process of identity-making.
I feel as if the standards of gender have always felt reductive, even as a child. Because I spent so much time in my head, when labels were assigned to me and arbitrary expectations put on me, I felt deeply uncomfortable in my body. Growing up, queerness felt like the right term to hold space for the way I wanted to conceptualize myself in the world. It feels expansive, not restrictive. It is embracing all expressions of you and your body. In my work, bodies never conform to what we expect of them.
Similarly, the term alien embraces all the things we don’t expect, and allows room for the Other to fill in that space. I think alien also has the fun connotation of having lived a whole different experience from everyone else, Unfortunately, it often sparks fear of difference in people that tells much more about the fearful than the feared. In my work, hands emerge out of nowhere, and bodies bend in ways that are unnatural”. These figures shows the power of having walked a different path in life to understand different modes of being that allow new knowledges to arise out of those experiences of Otherness.
Installation of Ghost Protecting Series, 2023, glazed and sandblasted ceramics, hydrangea petals, and bandages, 36 inch x 36 inch x 36 inch
Ghost Devil Offering Flowers, 2023, glazed and sandblasted ceramic, hydrangea petals, and bandages, 27 inch x 27 inch x 14 inch
You’ve mentioned embracing the uncanny in your art. How do you use this aesthetic to create deeper engagement with your audience?
CL: I find it surprising that most people walk around the world confident in every step they take. Normalcy feels false to me, and I think leaning into things that are uncomfortable, shocking people out of what they expect helps us all acknowledge how little we know about ourselves, our bodies, and others. I hope that the sense of uncanniness can help people to question what it means to be.
Can you walk us through how you approach a new project? How do materials, distortion, and abstraction factor into your decision-making?
CL: I have been struggling with material recently. As I mentioned before, I am very stubborn to change and will work one medium to death, trying to fit my projects into a material until it genuinely doesn’t make sense. Currently, I am using clay because it’s fast. I love working with my hands and feeling all parts of my pieces. But in order to build bigger, it would make more sense to move to plaster. In a perfect world, I’d have the resources to cast my pieces in bronze, or possibly carve out of stone. But I am terrified of power tools and clay feels gentle, worldly, and grounded.
Self Portrait as Fountain, 2023, glazed ceramic, and water pump, 17 inch x 10 inch x 5 inch
Is there a recent project that best represents your current artistic direction or the themes you’re most passionate about?
CL: A new project I’m working on is about domestic spiritualities, placing my figures in conversation with recognizable household items. I just finished the bisque firing for my piece Bath Tub Demon, where a golden figure languishes in a tub, cigarette in one hand, prayer beads in the other. Their head curves into the faucet of the tub. I am thinking about the complicated relationship I have with home. It is supposed to be a place of relaxation but once I am left alone with my thoughts, to "take care” of myself, I find myself rotting, even though I am supposed to find comfort and peace at home. This piece is supposed to reckon two different types of comfort that center around being alone, finding peace and harmony in solitude, or indulging in guilty pleasures hidden from the outside world. How do we find peace at home?
Backbender, 2023, glazed ceramic, 18 inch x 18 inch x 8 inch
Your Chinatown programming brought art directly to the community. How has this work shaped your perspective as an artist and educator?
CL: To feel so much resonance and energy with people who share your vision of a future is so enriching. Bringing people together to share their personal stories, of immigration, of relationships with mothers, and equipping them with a critical language, informed by the Ethnic Studies Reader, to process the world around them, creates the same effect I want my art to: to be radically connected to the people around us. I also want to think about art making as something that shouldn’t be a luxury, that working for yourself, for the sake of making an object should be celebrated.
Humility Figure, 2023, glazed ceramic, 25 inch x 20 inch x 12 inch
Consumption Devil, After Goya's Saturn Devouring His Son, 2023, glazed ceramic, 25 inch x 21 inch x 15 inch
How do you see your art contributing to larger conversations about intersectionality, representation, and community-building in contemporary art?
CL: Art should not be about the artist, it should be about the viewer. Everything is about celebrity and fame, but what is the point of art if it doesn’t reach anyone but a collector and a curator? I want to make installations that create spaces of contemplation, that will encourage people to look at themselves differently.
Can you tell us about any upcoming projects or collaborations you’re excited about?
CL: Following the Bath Tub Demon, there will be some other pieces thinking about old box TVs I grew up with, and the pitifulness of the toilet. These are silly projects that both capture my humor and my meditations of home and childhood that I am currently sitting with.
Are there new materials, techniques, or ideas you’re eager to explore in the future?
CL: I hope to get into building with plaster, just to see how much bigger and more flexible it would be.
What do you hope people take away from your work - on a personal level and in terms of the broader conversations you address?
CL: Contextualize yourself to history. Allow yourself to step out of routine and look to see what you really feel, what things you don’t understand, and be humble enough to leave room for all the strangeness of the world. It’s both terrifying and quite beautiful. What a joy it is to be both so small and so absolute.